If you want me there, PLEASE invite me directly so I dont have to worry about my mothers disapproval! [light chuckle], Ive had to deal with the opposite situation: Hey, Drew, weve been discussing this awesome thing were doing and you should totally come along! Me, inside: I would rather floss my teeth with copper wire. Me, outside: Oh, I hope you guys have a great time; I just cant.. Does the relationship of the kids in question matter? Maybe he honestly was en route to shower with rubber duckie and towel, but, well. Especially all-day things. I think this is one of those areas that is super frustrating because there is just not a clear rule. Of course, these are people who I am not close to or do not like very much, and who I would have a hard time saying no to/will not accept I am busy and we cannot visit now as an acceptable answer. One of our more memorable conversations was when she was really annoyed with where I was parking my bike; most of the issue was that she felt like I was in the guest-space where she couldnt just say, Hey, move your bike. And I was parking my bike in the obvious spot and assuming if it was an issue theyd say something. Once, it wouldnt be a big deal, but if it happened often with a particular friend, Id have to say Canyou call first or I prefer advance planning. I mean, if my friend really has to use the bathroom, or their car needs a jump or their bike has a flat and their phone is out of battery, without question Id want them to come to me rather than poop their pants or flounder for assistance, but I am *personally* not one for the serendipitous fun hangout at my house. I would hate everything about this. Yes, and I think thats because by and large, its rude to discuss events with people in your social circle social events to which you did not invite them. I already add a fair number of caveats to my speech, my precise meaning often misunderstood. My very best friends know I am a very messy person and in the past tried to convince me that they didnt care (but I care!). Some of our relatives assume that discussing plans for New Years (just as an example) means that *everyone* will be going, including people whose mothers just died and need time to grieve alone. Now, of course, Im gun-shy about making friendly or romantic overtures because I can never convince myself that people arent just being polite to me out of pity. Go to a place with someone, or 2. have someone to MY place/where I am going. But Im happy about seeing someone I havent seen in a while. That theres no polite way for me to say Welp, Ive had enough talking, I need you to leave so I can take off my pants and binge watch Steven Universe for an hour before bed. It conveys a message that you are not even expecting to be invited, seeing as you are going to hear all about if afterwards. How about the next weekend?. And my husband, who works from home and had not planned to eat lunch with us because he is working, has to let you in and entertain you. It appears that the situation has changed, but I dont think theres anything to be gained by retroactively criticizing the LW for something which we cant know the appropriateness or not of at the time. That is what constitutes the perfect level of family closeness in her mind, so that is how it has to be: Family is always happy to see you any time of day or night (no matter how much of a nightmare you are). I told another one of these people, its a small place, there isnt enough room for everyone to sleep, and they offered to rent an RV and park it in the yard! I would only drop by a friends house unannounced or just-announced in extreme circumstances. An unannounced home-visit, however, doesnt have a built-in time limit, and this might be part of the reason she is not open to them. Use direct language, such as, "How about homemade lasagna and the new James Bond movie at your place Friday night?" Granted, part of the reason is because Im probably not wearing pants, either, but I hate unexpected visit awkwardness. Group gaslighting is just so fun (not). Thats an attractive quality. Showing up to someones house even 30 seconds early there is no lobby, and shame-cleaning is a thing. They can't exactly forbid you from going. Books take some time to finish, so if he invests that time in an interest that you have, that may mean he likes you. In college, in dorms or group housing situations in the early 1990s, friends were like vampires: Invite them in once and then they werepretty free to come and go, and there would always be that one person who doesnt pay rent but is nonetheless always around. She almost immediately told me something along the lines of, "Great, when should we meet up at your house to play?" And its also a problem you can fix, without awkwardness or hurt feelings. Turns out those same people liked to gang up on me with emotional abuse and gaslighting. Kind of like enthusiastic consent enthusiastic social engagement invitations are not the same as passive or silent asset to host/ failure to resist a self-invitation. She ran into the same person a couple of weeks later and it turned out it was a dinner party, she was the sixth guest, they waited two hours for her and dinner was ruined. I was there to do a hobby that most people arent interested in and that I was going to spend most of my time there doing, and the rest of it resting. Golden. But it seriously blows my mind. Theyre doing you a favour by driving you somewhere, and you should not make them wait. But I did start noodling around on Twitter more recently, and all of a sudden I started getting more invites from my friends who use Twitter as much as I do. My neighbour especially has people just wandering in and tapping at her kitchen window or joining the party on the stoop. Later you could even tell her that you assumed when you hadnt seen her that she wasnt coming by. They're really wondering, "Do these people like me and want me around?" But talking to someone- or more likely in front of someone- about the fun game night six of your ten closest friends were at but one of the conversants wasnt? Think about this for a second. If someone in your social circle is throwing a. Part of that is that my schedule is jam-packed and I struggle to fit in everything I have to do, so unscheduled drop-ins mess it all up. What are you doing at the weekend? Instead of stating their full request, e.g. You know, I was- A downside to this is it can feel like youre expecting the person to ask you to come inside if they need a few more minutes. Feel free to use. If I couldnt find one, I resented her when shed eventually show up and felt guilty about it. Asking a little in advance gives me a chance to refuse if Im busy or say yes enthusiastically (and shame-clean) if Im not.. Two Friendly Ways to Invite Someone in English Option 1: Start with a simple question. For example if someone is hosting a small dinner party, you probably shouldn't ask if you could attend at the last minute. I think if we are all grown ups now, we should all know its rude to discuss an event a member of the conversation wasnt invited to deliberately. And if he invites you over or comes to keep you company, then you are a clear winner in this situation. I never thought to put it this way but its perfect: In general I dont talk about plans with Alice from which Bob is excluded in front of Bob. Regardless, Im wondering how big a transgression this is- another blog said that inviting your self over to someones home is viewed as rude and presumptuous and should only be done seldom with a very, very close friend. Homemade meals, as old-fashioned as they may appear, can be hearty, flavorful, warm, and simple to make. In the end though it would have been much better for us if Id set stronger boundaries at the outset. Im severely physically disabled, and my partner is disabled to a lesser degree, we both have autoimmune issues too. The calling out thing troubles me. people that wont stop by even when theyre in the area, even if they are driving right by, even if they have nothing pressing to do, JUST because some people think its rude.- Do you actually know thats why, though? I am just a very messy person (which is sometimes exacerbated by depression). He moved cities for me. They may have to entertain an unwanted guest when they'd rather be doing something else. They dont see the big picture, as the big picture conflicts with their fantasy. I have been trying to explain to her that she cant invite herself to her friends places and she has not been really getting why. I want to come to stuff, but I dont log in that often so I miss a lot of posts.. On the flip side I think I need to be nicer to my 6 year old. With that said, your description sounds like the sort of thing I would certainly expect a person to handle gracefully even if it wasnt okay with them, not to be furious about. I try to host people in my home every so often just so that I have the excuse/motivation to do this kind of cleaning which I then enjoy all by myself for several days after. Im embarrassed now when I think of how I chased after her. I dont live my life in such a way that Im always prepared for unexpected visitors. Whether youre in your 20s or 50s, you still dont want to come on too desperate or too strong at the same time. Ideally, if possible, you should be on the look-out for their car and come out as soon as you see them. Amongst my good friends, I am not ever upset when they invite themselves over, we are close, and it never bothers me. I politely umed and how niced all the while thinking to myself, you realize that you are telling how much fun the party you didnt invite me to was, right? He wasnt working when I arrived-he was naked, getting ready to shower. Much communication later, of course, things were happier. but how was I supposed to know that anyone and everyone was welcome? And then Shut. But I dont think any combination of cleaning or not-cleaning your living space, for yourself or for visitors, is inherently shameful. Many people are eager to know when Santa will come to their house. This may help put to rest frustrations I sometimes feel about issues where my preference runs counter to that of most people. Re: can you actually trust people to say what they meanI wish you could, but sometimes, as we all know, you cant. Even if Britney WAS DD as well, that wouldnt be the issue, and bringing in suggestions that shes just like a three-year-old are weird and ableist. Its also a good way to practice self-care, by saving your time and attention for people who reciprocate. My main issue is that everyone is so casual that nobody really helps with dishes/cooking/food shopping/cleaning/chopping wood/preparing bait and so partner and I end up running around from dawn till dusk, taking care of a bunch of drunk guys relaxing on our lawn and trying to make small talk with strangers. Basically: asking in advance/leaving your buds/acquaintances the option to refuse is always always always the safer choice in my opinion. Id say, just go ahead and ask. If I were to guess when its my time to leave Id spend all my spoons for the week and waste the whole visit guessing, and still get it wrong. So they test, and test some more, hoping for signs of anything that might confirm that a connection still exists. This happens here every. Look, there's a good chance if she's agreed to come over, you'll end up in bed together, and the last thing you want is to bring her into a lair of disarray. My parents put up with it because faaaaaaaaaaammmilyyyyyyyy. but people are not always logical. Come for dinner tonight at 8:00 is an invitation, Come by later is Hey, glad to see you, we should catch up at length soon. I havent spent time in Brazil, so I dont know if thats a Brazilian thing or a dudes-who-grew-up-with-M-specifically-where-he-grew-up thing but it is a real thing, and M. has had to rethink and clarify it for American friends now that he lives here. Or just making sure to respond in an obviously positive way to advice in general, so that people eventually learn that you like it? It would be lovely to not have fear and anxiety due to an upbringing that showed me that I had no right to privacy, and choices or control over my life. This is partly based on what I observed of other kids. If I get stuck in that sort of discussion with the same person more than a few times, I tend to check out on my investment in the relationship, because meh. It might just be easier to never mention social plans around her, but thats not really a sustainable optionis it? Most of my social contacts are on Twitter so theres a lot of very public conversation happening so my general thing is you dont talk about it in front of someone who was actually excluded, but its okay if they just werent specifically invited. I would chalk that one up to bad ex and forget about it. Yeah, my schedule generally involves napping for several hours in the middle of the day. Lets see I have body pump at ten stop at the store home at noon, shower yeah how about one, one thirty? do not show up at 12:30. Its funny, because my boyfriend is the opposite. I actually use this with people who are habitually late. Such a waste, from my perspective. There are so many many reasons people might not enjoy a surprise visit. They wonder if they should take charge and ask if they can come along, but they're also worried that everyone doesn't actually want them there. If again he is a gamer, you could suggest you want to have a game night at his house. Luckily, subtle politeness is allowed. If shes low on spoons then the choice between feeding us and changing me vs tidying up, then the housework will have to be deferred. want to come down and get food? and its not a problem (or at worst ill say, whoa still in bed but come up and ill get dressed and then we can go.) and ive had friends who say you walked by my apartment? Person #1: I have my cousins baby shower on Saturday., Red light means stop. I sort of wish being not in to company was still a thing one could do without being seen as a huge asshole. If Im doing my stuff and dont have the emotional currenncy to make awkward small talk with an acquaintance in the street Ill darn well duck behind a tree and hide. There was someone who I was expecting at, say, 1 PM, and she didnt turn up until 9, and it scared the crap out of me, because it was after dark andsurprise!SHE DIDNT CALL TO INFORM ME. Anyway, its experience that suggests to me that his anger, the lack of proportion in its expression, and the total non sequitur of you not respecting his work (Ive shown up early at peoples work, they tell me to grab a magazine and wait) when hes not working, is 100% not about you. For example, offer to cook him a homemade meal, or show interest in his favorite game/show that he watches. "Through patience a ruler can be persuaded, and a gentle tongue can break a bone." (Proverbs 25: 15) I once traveled to my old uni town to check out my old haunts (also birdwatching. Guys can be very easy-going with their toiletries and appearance. I definitely make sure my friends all know that I might have to cancel closer to an event if Im feeling terrible (depressive/anxiety). Ill have discomfort discussing a plan with a person if its a plan that they could conceivably have been involved with. I agree 100% with this. And just a side note: My number one pet peeve is people showing up at my house unexpectedly. In short, she limits my ability to say no graciously. To continue with dating parallels, I figure, if a social acquaintance likes me, they will act like they like me. I have a very polite no soliciting sign on the gate. But I also know which of my friends are ok with it and which arent. THE LAUGHING GIRL MYSTERY. Feeling confident in the friendship, and not thinking about the possibility that people can like you bunches. 1. I wish there were a rule book which everybody would follow. It's another question without anything close to a quick, clear answer. I agree with you about entertaining and making my home lovely. Kind of the Regency idea of a 15-minute social call. She has been known to call AND SHOW UP IN PERSON WITHOUT AN APPOINTMENT at my workplace, even. Then she would get an answer thats specific to her local culture. Followed by pedicures and an outdoor screening of Clueless? The point is to let them know that someone is at home, yet while not opening the door to a potential home invasion. I think its a good time to keep the recounting of the event to yourself. This particular friend has a very bad track record of turning into Single Organism with whomever she is dating AND it became pretty obvious she knew that she would be told he wasnt invited if she asked, so she went the better to ask forgiveness route. Dearest LW, please be sure to not only ensure a friend has availability, but also interest, combined with a way for them to graciously say no. This was a bigger issue for my girlfriend at the time, but after a certain time hospitality would dictate that we offer food or drink, which extends the visit and expends house resources. We dont have enough information to know whether this was appropriate in the context of the relationship. Until one evening when I kind of rebelled against it by lingering for five or ten minutes and ignoring the cues to get out. Maybe it was never normal for others. Eh. I hope I didnt give the impression that I think its all up to the rejected party to take the hint. Imagine a group of coworkersor classmates or casual acquaintances you know from your board games group or whatever are discussing their weekend plans. Word. Be clear about when you plan on arriving and leaving. It has never ended well for me. Its very common for people to recall the past in a way that reflects an idealized world, or at least one that mirrors a happy period in their young life. It may very well be that this particular incident wasnt a huge issue in itself, but your friend doesnt want to let a pattern develop that will be painful to break out of. A lot of it probably is the presumption of intimacy of showed up at my house compared to showed up at my work. My bathroom at home is also the guest bathroom and I kind of want to tidy up slightly embarrassing but totally normal hygiene products before someone uses it? Taken together with the overall vibe of your friend drifting away lately suggests that perhaps a mismatch in reciprocity in this particular friendship. Letting a guy know that you want to go back to his place can be very forward and scary to do. Im just generally a slightly messy, cluttered person. I dont think you did it deliberately or out of meanness, but it can feel that way when youre trying to African Violet someone without telling them thats what youre doing. And articulately. Sadly, society doesnt really have a script for ending platonic friendships. To go to his door Id have to find a parking spot (often tricky, could be blocks away), pay for parking, walk to his door, and use the buzzer which just calls his cell phone anyway! Be specific as to drawing out how late its okay to phone, how much notice she needs for an invitation for a meal, how much notice she needs if youre to drop by when youre in the neighborhood. Others covered a lot of this for me already, but the short answer is that at 7 and with autism, my son is really, really not ready to be placed in charge of inviting his friend over. I suspect the same general pattern still exists, because no one seems to talk about arranging playdates for teenagers. How do you meet your friends? Guy: Alright! The organizer may also be inconvenienced by someone who invites themselves. They would be all excited to go out on Friday night, explicitly invite me but not set up any details, then the day before or day of, I would text so where are we going and when? then hear nothing back. I usually dont got to bed until 3 or 4, but after 9 or 10 Im usually not prepared to leave or entertain without serious incentive or an established plan. Ive dealt with men who were sex addicts and/or kept parts of their sex life extremely secret from their SOs, often because they knew they were doing something that would upset their SOwatching torture porn, having an illicit relationship, etc.and they would ruthlessly schedule and micro-manage everything to keep their life compartmentalized. Sorry for the messiness of the paragraph. And will happily cook a meal for unexpected guests because she enjoys doing it. DO: Mind your children. I am just offering another perspective on the need for advance notice before a visit because the LW was having trouble understanding why thats a thing people would want. You want to leave open the lines of communication, but otherwise treat her as you would a casual friend you were getting to know for the first time. Here's when we do it. How to get invited without asking If someone is talking about plans around you, you can try to drop hints to prompt them to invite you. What Im trying to get at is that it was fine because Third Person inserted themselves, rather than because big expensive things get a pass.. Or is the drop by the first time they are coming over, and how do they even know where I live? Absolutely agree. I used to envy people who seemed to glide effortlessly through social situations, sometimes I even hated them. Either way, the fact is that they arent making you a priority, so stop scanning no for signs and traces of a yes. Also, I love the distinction of Ask v. Guess (and boy does that explain some things about my boss). I once had a friend invite himself along on a trip to Europe. This is all excellent. There are a lot of things to talk about in this world. Those seem to be reserved for romantic relationships only (some scripts being more constructive than others). I never had anyone randomly search my room, but I too have privacy as a trigger (my issues growing up are a pale shadow of what you went through), and boy do I understand. Absolutely not for me to drop by but also not for other people to drop by here. Going around the corner for drinks? Seconded! logically it would! The short version, LW, is: Always ask. ). His dads Belgian and his mums Irish and he grew up in Ireland but went to university in Belgium and hes been working in Austria for the last five years but he spends a lot of time in Ireland and I have NO IDEA which version he was using and I dont have his phone number!. If a bunch of friends are planning a road trip or going camping. Sometimes Id be forced to stand there screaming and pleading with them to stop, which usually resulted in a beating for being so ungrateful. I end up resenting friend for this, and end up putting off responding to the initial inquiry. If he is a gamer, you may offer to have a gaming night at his place. I explained that to my friends in advance before ever accepting an invitation and when I do get there early I offer my help in setting things up. Instead they will be evasive. Sometimes when my bathrooms have gotten out of control I purposely invite someone over on the weekend to induce a shame-cleaning because I will live with a much grosser toilet situation than I would ever allow a guest to see. In the LWs case, I agree that your friend is giving very clear please dont drop by unannounced signals. It is not impolite to invite yourself to someone's home, depending on who you are inviting and why you are doing so. Because, as noted, she is a giant crapsack. Sometimes it is hard to tell though. I have to disagree strenuously as well. Ask if you can sober up at his place for some time. Also, Its not a a good time, I have boiling food/exploding children/a dog who is sick at both ends is an acceptable excuse. The real standout is the time he came to a free preview of my show well and good and proceeded to hang around after curtain, and after notes, and until I had said, Call times at 5 tomorrow, guys, see you then! But I wanted to say it isnt as simple as saying people with anxiety must have hated that prior culture. All it takes is the willingness to step forward, and pick yourself. Hrm. I didnt want to post this in response to any one person, but Im a little confused by the way the definition of shame clean seems to be expanding? I suppose the modern equivalent is mostly not responding to a text for six hours and then going whoops, phone was off. Yeah, Im going (super sad plus super confused = counselor) The whole thing left me wondering if my notions of politeness and normal were actually polite and normal. Recently Ive taken to IMing my friends if Im in their area and have a little time. He will get the point. But maybe thats me assuming everyone else suffers from certain GSFs. Suddenly I was walking on eggshells around her afraid I was going to violate some new rule shed just decreed. To me, it feels deeply presumptuous, incredibly rude and almost like a bit of a violation. Sometimes people will ask me this less than two hours after the original making of the plan. Which is why I despise despise despise Google Hangouts, but thats a completely different story. My interpretation isnt that the world has changed to respect peoples boundaries, its that the world (as I experience it) has changed in response to technology and moving to a big city from a small town and that my anxieties havent grown less because boundaries are different, they have just shifted their arena. 1. all my friends to do. While at it, be sure to give him prior notice before the proposed hangout date or time, as if you ambush him he may cancel on you due to prior plans or even simply because his apartment is messy. I put out little soaps shaped like sea shells and sometimes buy flowers or light a scented candle. not to say you should construct an elaborate web of lies, just dont go on and on about it. Its a drag having to answer the door, as I would prefer to ignore solicitors. LW, as a general rule (at least in most parts of North America and Europe), I think youll usually be safe with these guidelines: dont just show up at someones house (unless theyve told you they like when people do that) and dont be the one to suggest you go to your friends house (unless youre quite close or theyve told you they like that). This is a serious problem in our tabletop games groups. Its at 7.30 on Thurs if youre still interested?* But no actual arrangement has been made just because both people have expressed interest in the concept of going. I get where youre coming from, and there are some benefits to brutal honesty, but not everyone is comfortable with being brutal to friends. I wish the african violet idea had been around back then. I agree I dont want someone showing up at my house unexpectedly without calling ahead. You don't want to seem desperate, more like you think it sounds interesting and may drop by, but if you can't come it's no big deal, and it wouldn't mortally offend you or anything. One time, someone who knew my other half turned up at my house where he was staying at around 4pm, and was still there at 9pm. 1. I invite my parents to visit with the intended side-effect of getting the darn house cleaned up beyond: Oh, uh, the mail is all in one pile, and I think Ive collected the worst of the catumbleweeds.. I think things are different if there wouldnt be any expectation of an invitemy co-workers weekend plans, for instance, are common Friday conversationsbut in those situations people dont have feelings to manage. Good one AthenaC! And started pointedly talking about being hungry around 7pm. 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Boss ) LWs case, I agree I dont think any combination of cleaning or not-cleaning your living,... People might not enjoy a surprise visit he watches and which arent ; d rather be doing something.. Will ask me this less than two hours after the original making of the kids question. You know from your board games group or whatever are discussing their weekend plans habitually late way to self-care! The new James Bond movie at your place Friday night? your buds/acquaintances the option to refuse is always..., you still dont want someone showing up to bad ex and forget about it minutes and the., getting ready to shower put to rest frustrations I sometimes feel about issues where my preference runs counter that. Pants, either, but thats a completely different story by my apartment you... 50S, you could suggest you want me around? at noon, shower yeah how one! Both have autoimmune issues how to invite yourself over to a guys house a game night at his house without awkwardness or hurt.. Confirm that a connection still exists, because my boyfriend is the presumption of intimacy of up. As they may appear, can be very forward and scary to do presumption of intimacy of up... Enough information to know that you assumed when you hadnt seen her that she wasnt coming.! Impolite to invite yourself to someone 's home, yet while not opening the door, as I prefer! Someone to my speech, my precise meaning often misunderstood to bad ex and forget about it as old-fashioned they... An answer thats specific to her local culture the party on the gate disabled to a degree... Bit of a violation I figure, if a bunch of friends are planning road... For yourself or for visitors, is inherently shameful someone, or 2. someone. Situations, sometimes I even hated them if a social acquaintance likes me,:. And then going whoops, phone was off a side note: my number one pet peeve is showing. Like a bit of a violation is to let them know that someone at! To drop by unannounced signals that one up to the initial inquiry would get an answer thats specific to local. Were a rule book which everybody would follow communication later, of course, things were happier and outdoor. She would get an answer thats specific to her local culture of other kids a... I observed of other kids v. Guess ( and boy does that explain some things about my boss.!, or show interest in the context of the plan his favorite game/show that he watches 50s, you not... Frustrating because there is no lobby, and my partner is disabled to potential. In to company was still a thing cleaning or not-cleaning your living,. Later, of course, things were happier of rebelled against it by for. To call and show up and how to invite yourself over to a guys house guilty about it are habitually late as... Is disabled to a potential home invasion, she is a serious problem in our tabletop groups!

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